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Persuasive essay (Lithium based batteries>Nickel based batteries)


kylelanning 1 / 12  
Apr 27, 2009   #1
Hello, I need some help on an introductory paragraph for a persuasive essay i am constructing for a 10th grade english course. Every time i feel as if i have something right or perfect, i always seem to obtain low grades on essays that i write. I am a very mathematically-minded person and when i am not able to activly veiw a grading rubric, i am usually unable to formulate somthing that can acheive a high grade.

here is my introductory statement paragraph

Batteries are essential to utilizing many modern electrical devices, and the chemistry within a cell is often taken for granted, therefore lithium-based batteries must be embraced as a newer, better battery chemistry. The focus of research and technical advancement of lithium-based cells should be priority compared to nickel-based cells due to the evident advantages that the lithium-based cells hold. Though both nickel based batteries and lithium based batteries supply a sufficient amount of electrical power for a variety of electrical devices, the advantages of lithium-based technology greatly outweigh that of nickel-based cells in terms of capacity, energy density, cycle amount, internal resistance and effective discharge rates. Because of the multiple advantages lithium technology offers, it is simply illogical to continue with the production and advancement of nickel-based cells. Although the major advantages lithium batteries hold, the technology is not mainstream as nickel-based cells are. The objective of this paper will be to encourage the widespread development and utilization of a new technology. With the advancement and proactive research toward said batteries, mobile electronics will be able to evolve and benefit mankind indefinitely. By interpreting hard data and in-depth information on a variety of battery chemistries, one will most likely be able to determine the immense advantage lithium based batteries have over nickel based batteries.

The possibilities of portable electronics is infinite, but only with strenuous advancements toward newer power technologies. Imagine smaller, lighter, longer lasting laptops, cell phones that may last weeks or even months per charge. Imagine clean, environmentally conscious vehicles that can meet the demands that only internal combustion engines where capable of. Imagine having cordless tools that are not only lightweight but powerful and seemingly everlasting. Imagine not having to worry about charge or discharge rates. Where lithium cells exceed, nickel-based cells are struggling to perform to minimum standards.

Within layman's terms, "energy density" is simply the amount of work (in the form of electrical energy) per an allotted time per weight of a voltaic cell (Buchmann 1 BU5A). The amount of work is measured in watts, which is the standard scientific unit for measuring the effective amount of said work that is produced (Merriam-Webster 1). The standard equation for energy density is simply: energy density equals watt-hours divided by kilograms. Statistics show that lithium polymer batteries obtain an energy density between the average ranges of approximately one-hundred and ten to one-hundred and seventy watt/hours per kilogram (Buchmann 1 BU5A, see index fig. 1). Nickel based cells, on the other hand, produce approximately only seventy to ninety watt/hours per kilogram (Ibid). Why is energy density important? It shows the amount of energy per weight that a voltaic cell (a battery) can produce. Why is that important? Well, a larger amount of watt/hours per kilogram means that more energy can be obtained from a battery at a steady rate for a longer period of time within a certain mass (Battery Energy - What battery provides more? 1). An increased output within a lower mass allows lithium batteries to provide the same amount of energy, as say a nickel-based cell, with a substantial decrease in mass. Again, why is this important? Well, batteries are generally used when AC current (i.e., an outlet) is either uneconomical or inaccessible. This generally means that a battery operated device must be transported, so a light battery that can achieve sufficient power has the ability to be utilized. Electric cars, for example, can benefit from lighter cell technology in order to directly increase efficiency by means of decreased inertia.

If you guys have any suggestions to improve my writing, i will take any advice that is offered and i will strive to grow.

Thanks a million guys

-Kyle

(The assignment is to provide a 5 page persuasive/research essay on a certain topic that states hard evidense to support the certain cause, not anecdotal evidense)

Edit: my last 5 minutes or so has gone into some more

Batteries are essential to utilizing many modern electrical devices, and the chemistry within a cell is often taken for granted. The focus of research and technical advancement of lithium based cells should be priority compared to nickel based cells due to the evident advantages that the lithium based cells hold.

Yay? nay?
Notoman 20 / 419  
Apr 27, 2009   #2
Technically speaking, your first paragraph is pretty good. I would add a hyphen between a lot of the words-generally when you have two adjectives before your noun, you will put a hyphen between them . . . nickel-based batteries, lithium-based batteries, etc.

The word provide should be provides . . . lithium-based technology provides.

Although your sentences are technically correct, I find them hard to read. It could be because I don't know enough about battery technology or it could be because the sentences are long and sometimes repetitive. Seems how this essay is for an English class instead of a science class, it might help to put some of your terminology into layman's terms. For a persuasive essay, I think it would help to lay out the benefits of lithium-based batteries in your introduction and save the comparisons with other technologies for later in your paper. (Unless it is a compare/contrast essay . . .)

If you want to focus on the advantages of lithium-based technology, your introductory paragraph might read something like this:

There are many types of batteries to supply power for a variety of electrical devices, but the advantages of lithium-based technology far outweigh other batteries. Lithium-based technology is superior in terms of capacity, energy density, cycle amount, internal resistance, and effective discharge rates. Being the future of battery technology, lithium-based batteries provide advantages to consumer electronics as well as in the industrial sphere. Proactive research along with advancements in batteries will help mobile electronics to evolve to the benefit of mankind. By studying hard data and in-depth information on a variety of battery chemistries, the immense advantage of lithium-based batteries is apparent.
EF_Sean 6 / 3,491  
Apr 27, 2009   #3
The assignment is to be persuasive, right? So, who exactly are you trying to persuade? Who is your target audience? Your paragraph at the moment might greatly interest someone who is very much into engineering batteries, I suppose. Otherwise, it's a bit dull. I mean, really:

"Though both nickel based batteries and lithium based batteries supply a sufficient amount of electrical power for a variety of electrical devices, the advantages of lithium based technology greatly outweigh that of nickel based cells in terms of capacity, energy density, cycle amount, internal resistance and effective discharge rates"

This may be true. But I am not feeling energized (pardon the pun) about the issue. Now that I think about it, what exactly are you trying to persuade me of? That lithium based technology is better? But I assume that there really isn't much debate over that. Surely "capacity, energy density, cycle amount, internal resistance and effective discharge rates""are all empirical measures? This is more informative than persuasive, then. Or are you trying to persuade me to only buy lithium batteries? But if nickle batteries supply a "sufficient amount of electrical power" then none of your reasons is persuasive, if nickle batteries are 10 times cheaper than lithium ones (they may not be, but how would I know, as you haven't touched on this aspect of the topic?)

And this is why, though your paragraph is well-written and well-informed, it might garner a low mark from your teacher. "By showing hard data and in-depth information on a variety of battery chemistries, one will most likely be able to determine the immense advantage lithium based batteries have over nickel based batteries." But you won't be able to persuade me of anything. You can inform me that lithium batteries are better. If there is any debate about that, you can convince me to agree with you to avoid having to listen to any more on the subject, which is about as fascinating to most people as watching paint dry. But you haven't given your audience a reason to care about a topic, or explained why the topic is important, or why you think the audience might need to change its mind about it. Indeed, it seems likely that most people you might be writing this for probably don't have an opinion on the topic at all, and so don't need to be persuaded to change their minds about anything.

So, either pick a different topic, or find a way to make this one interesting. And either way, make sure that you are arguing a point that at least some of your audience might vehemently disagree with. Persuasion implies resistance. That is, you don't need to persuade people who already agree with you. You need to persuade people who don't.

Good luck.
EF_Kevin 8 / 13,321 129  
Apr 28, 2009   #4
Well, I am all charged up, ever-ready to help with the powerful new draft!

The last part you added though, sounds like it would make a more interesting opening sentence.
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
Apr 28, 2009   #5
Wow, thanks guys (i can honestly say that i would've never expected such prompt and constructive answers). I have little time to work on it tonight, but when i get to it (most likely tommarow) i will attempt to utilize the advice given to my best ability.

I can't tell you guys how much this helps!

This site is officially in my favorites. :)

Thanks!
EF_Kevin 8 / 13,321 129  
Apr 29, 2009   #6
Ha ha, right on! You are cool.
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
Apr 30, 2009   #7
Allright, so basically what i am trying to persuade is to advance lithium-based battery technology to be a mainstream battery chemistry compared to that of nickel based cell.

Each of which have their own advantages and disadvantages, but Lithium based cells can benefit industry and consumer electronics much more so than that of nickel based cells.

Essentially, the "target audiance" is my english teacher, who knows very little about my topic.

I do understand that it is a dry topic, and as far as i can tell, there isn't much room for creativity and imaginative writing for the topic.

Everything must be parenthetically documented, etc. I just chose the topic because it is something that interests me more than say... stem cell research, cannabis legality, abortion, and all those other lame over-done (lame) debateable topics. And as far as i know, it may not be changed at this point in time.

I also understand that most of the persuasion is based on hard data, but i don't know of anything to base it off of. There are no ethical standereds to take a stand on though, which i think is a plus, being that there must be parenthetical documentation. It's like persuading somebody to purchase an infinity G35 over a lexus IS F, both vehicles have there own strong and weak points, yet one has to have technical information that says "this is better, therefor it shall persuade you to purchase it" comparitively to the other. So how would one go about persuading one over the other? Perhaps that is the speedbump that i am at now.

English definately isn't my strong point, hence why i came here. Personally, i'd much rather be doing integral calculus or designing something on solidworks. lol.

If anybody has any suggestions on how to improve this and my situation? i am really quite lost. I'm sorry if i am asking too much, and i feel guilty for coming to a forum just to be like- "hey, edit my paper."

Thanks a million.
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
Apr 30, 2009   #8
More work has been done on this paper. I'm sorry if it is an overwhelming amount.

Any advice? I feel like a leech, lol. Any help and i will be extraordinarily thankfull.

Thanks

-Kyle Lanning
Notoman 20 / 419  
May 1, 2009   #9
MUCH better! I'm too sleepy to do any corrections right now (there are only a few small ones), but I did want to say that the paper is reading much better.

You are still missing a few hyphens. Your English teacher will notice if you aren't consistent in that regard. Are you doing parenthetical citation in MLA style? Your citations are pretty long. If your teacher specified MLA, then you would need much shorter in-text citations-just long enough for people to connect them to the longer citations on your Works Cited page.

I think it would be helpful to state WHY people use more nickel-based batteries. Is it because they are cheaper? More accessible? Which one is easier on the environment? Is this a similar argument to halogen lightbulbs versus compact florescents? Make a STRONG case for the lithium-based cells.

In the second paragraph, you are asking your reader to "imagine" a lot. There might be a better way to word this so that the reader doesn't drift off into their imaginary happy place with no hope of returning to your paper.

It still needs a conclusion. Just reiterate your points and make a strong case for the newer technology.

The improvement is impressive though!
Notoman 20 / 419  
May 1, 2009   #10
Okay, I am awake now. Well, as awake as I ever am in the morning.

Here are a few corrections and suggestions.

Though both nickel based- batteries and lithium- based batteries

immense advantage lithium- based batteries have over nickel- based batteries.

Imagine smaller, lighter, longer lasting laptops, cell phones that may last weeks or even months per charge. Envision clean, environmentally conscious vehicles that can meet the demands that only internal combustion engines where were capable of. Imagine having cordless tools that are not only lightweight but powerful and seemingly everlasting. Visualize not having to worry about charge or discharge rates. (These are just thoughts)

In layman's terms

the effective amount of said work (energy? the output? "said work" sounds overly scientific especially when there is already so much science talk in this paragraph) that is produced

The standard equation for energy density is simply I don't know about the word "simply" here. If your audience is your English teacher, he might think that you are patronizing him. What about something like: The energy density is stated using the equation . . . :

lithium- polymer batteries obtain an energy density between the average ranges of approximately one-hundred and ten to one-hundred and seventy watt/hours per kilogram This might be better is you separate some of the numbers so as not to overwhelm the English teacher's brain. The brains of English teachers aren't always configured for handling numbers. I think I'd restate it something like this: On average, polymer batteries obtain a energy density of . . . In fact, I'd take out the word "approximately" because you have already stated that it is an average and you don't want it to feel like a formula.

Nickel- based cells

produce approximately omit approximately again

(Ibid) I am not sure what style you are using for your in-text citations, but I think that most call for the author's name again instead of an Ibid.

Why is energy density important? It shows the amount of energy per weight that a voltaic cell (a battery) can produce. Why is that important? Instead of asking your reader questions and having them feel like they are taking a quiz toward the end of the essay, TELL them why energy density is important. Energy density is important because it shows . . . A battery that weighs less has advantages when it comes to . . .

Again, why is this important? Again, TELL the reader why it is important

Well, batteries The "well" feels pretty casual here, more conversational than needed

is either uneconomical inefficient? "uneconomical" is technically fine, but it is an awkward word because it isn't used often and is a bit of an ugly duckling or inaccessible.

a battery- operated device must be transported, so a light battery that can achieve sufficient power has the ability to be utilized. I'm not sure what this sentences is saying. Hmmm . . . Generally speaking, battery-operated devices are designed to be portable. Light-weight batteries with sufficient energy to power up electronics away from outlets allow portable devices to be more efficient. Lithium-polymer batteries can be very light weight and have a profile similar to that of a credit card.

Now you need a conclusion.

Reiterate some of your main points and restate why lithium-based batteries are better than nickel-cadmium batteries.

*Lithium cells have lower profiles and weights
*safe for the environment
*longer lives without loss of memory
*great for high-drain devices like laptops and portable video players

It is coming along nicely! I can tell that it means a lot to you to do well on this. Is your teacher open to going over your essay prior to turning it in? It would mean staying after school one day or giving up a lunch, but it would show great initiative to try. My high school has teachers available after school one day a week. I went once for help with a paper and came away with some of my best writing to date. English can be a tricky subject because it is so subjective! Don't feel berated by any of my comments here. I am just trying to help you play the game of pleasing an English teacher.
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
May 1, 2009   #11
Thank you a lot Eric. I wrote another draft based on what advice you have given me. A note about the paper is that I still have many more points to go over, and am far from thinking about a conclusion. About the citations, i honestly do not know what format they should be in, but my teacher just explained that "ibid" should be used after a certain source has been allready shown. I will get back to her on that.

Another note on getting in touch with the teacher, basically, all of this was due today (we had to have had the introduction and first arguement completed) and it will be handed back as a first draft. She will still grade them, but not as rigorously as say a completed essay and it will be handed back with reccomendations on how to improve. Usually, when this happens, i receive back a paper with so much red ink on it that it looks like a bandage from the civil war (lol), and its usually hard to improve. I still have more points to go over, and of course, a conclusion to add.

Thanks alot for the advice, the information that i have obtained from you guys is infinately valuable.

-Kyle Lanning
EF_Sean 6 / 3,491  
May 1, 2009   #12
Wow, your essay is definitely improving -- you have managed in your introduction to make the reader care about the topic, and explained why it is important. Your second paragraph has a good rhythm, and seems to capture the potential of lithium batteries quite well . . . almost like what you would want to do in a conclusion. The copy and paste function of your word processor might help you there. Eric has given you some excellent advice. Let me add to it by saying that your third paragraph is just way too technical, especially for an essay aimed at persuading an English teacher. It also isn't really necessary, in a persuasive essay. The entire paragraph can be reduced to a single sentence:

"Lithium batteries provide the same amount of energy as nickel-based cells, while being substantially lighter, a great advantage given that most battery operated devices must be transported by hand."

You don't need to explain the technical specifics or the mathematical formula that proves that lithium batteries can be lighter than nickel-based ones. No one is likely to disagree with your statement strongly enough for the extra detail to be necessary. You would be better off explaining how much weight could be saved, and giving examples of technologies that would be easier to use if lighter. In other words, you should give examples aimed at people who use batteries, rather than examples aimed at people who are battery enthusiasts. Why? Because your teacher (i.e. your audience) is a person who uses batteries, not a battery enthusiast. To build on your car example, someone who really cared about cars would love to hear about engine specs and other technical details about the cars being compared. But what if you were writing for someone who didn't particularly care about cars, someone who used them rather than collecting them or building them? That is, what if you were writing for the vast majority of people who buy cars? Then, all you would need to say about the engine is that the engine of car X was more powerful and fuel efficient than car Y. You wouldn't bother to explain the mechanics of why this was. You'd move on to talk about how car X had more features, including air-conditioning, power windows, etc. (Things that would seem unimportant to a car enthusiast mostly interested in engines). So, again, keep your audience in mind as you write the body paragraphs, and you'll be fine.

BTW Eric, have you considered becoming an official contributor -- you give really solid advice.
Notoman 20 / 419  
May 1, 2009   #13
The thing with "ibid" is that it doesn't really tell the reader *which* reference you are referring back to. Does your school have some kind of style manual that they want you to use? My high school has a link on their website to a manual that they want students to use on all papers (one-inch margins, Arial or Times New Roman in 12pt, MLA citations). My school is a little uptight when it comes to those things though. Some teachers at my school don't care too much about the formatting, but most will take off major points if your margins are off or your Works Cited page isn't double-spaced.

I like that your teacher corrects your rough draft and gives you the opportunity to clean things up and meet expectations before handing in the final! My biggest complaint with my English teacher this year is that there are *rarely* any comments! I'll get an 85, then a 98, then a 95 without ever really knowing WHY. He doesn't circle grammatical errors or anything.

Hey, thanks Sean! I don't know if I want to give too much weight to my opinions with a title. I'm just a seventeen-year old kid who is tripped up by commas, stumbles over verb agreement, and would rather be playing video games than writing essays for English class.
EF_Sean 6 / 3,491  
May 1, 2009   #14
Ibid is shorthand for "the same source as the last thing I cited." So, it tells the reader that the quotation it is attached to comes from the same source as the last fully cited quotation.

However, only certain citation styles use this, so Kyle will have to check with his teacher to find out what citation style she wants, so that he can Google that format to make sure his essay matches it.

I'm just a seventeen-year old kid who is tripped up by commas, stumbles over verb agreement, and would rather be playing video games than writing essays for English class.

You are also an intelligent, articulate individual who gives detailed and helpful advice to others on this forum. A person who might, one day soon, be applying for colleges and jobs, filling out applications that ask him about his volunteer experiences. Posting in online forums as a random member doesn't really qualify, but posting as an official contributor does. That's why we have the designation, so that students using this site who do a really great job at helping their peers out can get recognition for it. Up to you, though.
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
May 1, 2009   #15
Sean, Eric, you guys are awesome.

I reveiwed with my teacher and she advised me that all the parenthetical citations must be in MLA format, and she also verified that "ibid" was acceptable within reference to the previous source, just as Sean posted.

I understand what you mean Sean about the first arguement, thank you for bringing it to my attention. I will continue to build on it on the basis of what she thinks about the first part of the paper, but i am thinking (in fact, i know) that she would much rather prefer the way you stated it.

I still can't express how much this site exceeded my expectations. I was honestly expecting a dormant, slow moving forum constructed by members that are illigitimate and unconstructive (nothing personal, of course, it just seemed too good to be true). Hopefully one of these days i'll be able to answer questions instead of asking them, but for now, i can't thank you guys enough!

There is definately more to come from this essay as it is the last grade we will have for the semester, so i MUST do good on it.

(also, can you send a private message to other members as you may be able to on other forums? )

Eric, do you go to Grandview in Colorado?

All the best and TGIF
-Kyle Lanning
EF_Kevin 8 / 13,321 129  
May 2, 2009   #16
Hi Kyle, the contributors are able to send private messages, but as of now I think members don't have the private message function ordinarily. Please check out the EF Contributor page!(link at the bottom of the screen) I'm glad you had a good experience here.
Notoman 20 / 419  
May 2, 2009   #17
I tried to do a little research on the ibid thing last night because I was curious. Now I know even less about it! The Owl at Purdue is a highly regarded authority on writing and citing (it is the one that my teachers defer and refer to), but the Owl doesn't say a thing. There are other sites that tell you how and when to use ibid. and op. cit., while others say NOT to use it at all.

The MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers says:

Gibaldi (313) does NOT recommend the use of these old-fashioned abbreviations: ibid. (from the Latin ibidem meaning "in the same place") and op. cit. (from the Latin opere citato meaning "in the work cited.")

For Footnote or Endnote citations, if you should see the term ibid. being used, it just means that the citation is for the second mention of the same work with no intervening entries:

3 Ibid. 12-15.

More commonly, author and page number or numbers are now used instead of ibid., e.g.:
4 Miller 12-15.

For second or later mention of the same work with intervening entries, where previously op. cit. was used, now only the author and page number or numbers are used.

BUT that was a 2003 edition and things can and do change in our constantly evolving language.

Obviously, Kyle should use ibid because that is what his teacher told him to do (and they are the demigods in a student's world).

Sorry about the rambling. I guess I am just in one of those moods today.

Hey Kyle, are you from Colorado??
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
May 2, 2009   #18
lol

Yeah, i'm from Colorado and i am a sophomore at berthoud high school (~700 students and staff combined). I just saw in your profile that you went to "grandview" and i know that there is a grandview high school in the denver area, hence i asked the question. ;)
EF_Sean 6 / 3,491  
May 2, 2009   #19
I didn't think ibid was used in MLA either, but if that's what the teacher wants, then that is what should be used. Citing correctly is probably overrated anyway. As long as the source is clearly credited and can be tracked down, most people, including teachers and professors, don't much care if a non-essential piece of information is left off, or an extra comma thrown in. I don't think I've ever lost marks for citation errors, and in fact I only recently learned that you don't put a comma between author name and page number in MLA. That's what I did for every single citation in every single essay I ever submitted for university work, and no one ever even bothered to point out that it was mistake!
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
May 13, 2009   #20
Hey guys, just an update. I turned the paper in on the first, and received a 72 percent on it. I was dissapointed to say in the least, and the full paper is due Friday. My teacher wrote very little notes saying on what i should improve, so i am fairly lost. I will be going to go into her tommarrow to see if she can't offer any advice to aid my grade on assignments, but untill then i was wondering if you guys had any links or any information that i could use to perhaps strengthen my essay. I feel bad for just asking and asking, as i'd rather go about research to learn instead of getting the information handed to me.

On another note, She did not note at all at the technicality of the paragraphs, which makes me wonder what she wants from me. Usually, if she has an issue with what i'd write, she'd say it, which confuses me even more.

So if anybody has any good resources that they can point me to that could aid me in the process that would be fantastic and i would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks guys

-Kyle
EF_Sean 6 / 3,491  
May 13, 2009   #21
Well, you could try posting the draft and the comments you did get (you said she gave you few comments, rather than none) here, and we can see if we can help you make sense of them.
EF_Kevin 8 / 13,321 129  
May 15, 2009   #22
Yeah, sometimes it can be hard to make sense of the reasons teachers take points off. But the thing I would refer you to is the rubric, the grading criteria originally provided. Did she provide one? When points are deducted, it is good to refer to the rubric!
Mustafa1991 8 / 373 4  
May 15, 2009   #23
You give the impression that "either" you have to be a math fanatic, "or" you have to be a linguistics scholar.

Or you could be both or none...

I don't think I have a propensity to write in terms of quantifiable measurements for persuasive essays, though I consider myself quite adept at math.

You write very well relative to most people your age, so I don't buy the "I'd rather be doing integral calculus" notion at all.

I don't know if this holds true for you, but sometimes people will create labels or stigmatized depictions of a certain type, and sub-consciously you try to assimilate that by cohering to the popular notion -- even project it exaggeratedly.

I've done so myself on ocassion.

Why limit yourself in that sense, if that's what you're doing...?

If you're not, I gather it may be easier to write in extensive detail about things you know well because unfamiliarity disturbs you, and also because you want to demonstrate that you have this knowledge?

It's like a preemptory feel-out of your surroundings, and now that I think about it, it isn't so incompatible with the "type-molding" model I'm referring to.

Or I could be completely wrong, and that's just you, so I've unwittingly turned you off anyway.

Whatever the case is, in the future I would avoid talking about batteries in a generalized persuasive essay. And I'm not saying that because batteries are beyond my scope -- I am wholly ignorant about them, but I can learn in an awful hurry.

That's the point I think Sean was trying to make: A general reader who doesn't know too much about batteries, won't care too much for your essay. But suppose that the reader studies nothing but batteries for two weeks; now they might be fascinated with your essay (or not, because I'm totally clueless as to whether you're saying something really simple or something really complex -- though I could probably venture a guess).

I shouldn't have to know anything technical beyond what is common knowledge in a 10th grade English class (the bar for the kind of essays your classmates are likely to submit, and what your teacher is use to).

Can you guess that I barely read your essay?

I shouldn't have to devote an inordinate amount of time as a pre-requisite to fully understand the implications of what you're saying.

If I want to know batteries I'll take a structured course about them, or learn about them comprehensively on my own. I'm rambling now in the hope that the point will reach home, but have you ever called or consulted with someone about anything?

Are you familiar with the "bottom line" in accounting?

Would you be interested as a client, to hear your accountant rattling off these terms you've never heard, nor have any interest in hearing, or would you like to know what the "bottom line" showing the profit or loss is?

What if the accountant could tie in all those exotic terms with the ability of the proprietor to make a boatload of cash?

Now suddenly, he's taken an interest in what he wouldn't have, otherwise.

So your job is to focus on writing persuasive essays that emphasize the craft of writing well, unless if you can in some subtle way include all these things while still keeping the reader interested. The ability to do that is actually the ability you're being asked to work on; persuade me that these terms have significance for me.

Hopefully I've persuaded YOU that it's worth your while to be a persuasive writer, because then people will devour what otherwise they would dismiss offhand.

You won't be able to make this essay until you are competent in writing well as a craft (partly the reason they require English pre-reqs in most colleges, for any major or field) in itself, which should be all the incentive you need to pursue that goal.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------

But I'm sure you're mostly interested in improving the abysmal 72 at this stage...

Look over the instructions one more time, point blank, and try doing exactly what they ask of you.

After consideration if you find that you can't do it with the current topic, ask your teacher if he will allow you to change topics.

5 pages is not long. Even at your level you should be able to include roughly 5-7 cited facts per page (30 all together), and fill the rest of the space by expounding on them.

Make sure to post your essay, his comments, and the instructions, before you submit for a grade Friday.
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
May 20, 2009   #24
Well, when i mentioned Friday, i meant last Friday. I received my grade for it yesterday and got a 70% even on it... Again, extraordinarily disappointing, considering that 30 points (of the 200) where counted off because she (my english teacher) ceases to believe that my un-documented information is that of my own. Very frustrating indeed, so all of today has been spent printing, labeling, and highlighting all of my references used, and i am going to see if she can't submit it towards a plagiarism detecting search-engine.

On another note, i really enjoy math. I also enjoy that with math, generally, either you are correct, or incorrect. Very little interpretation is required for "grading". It feels as if my teacher set a blind eye towards the content of my essay and deduced what ever she "felt" was neccesary. Maybe its just me (and it probably is... The criminal rarely claims responsibility for the crime i guess.), but i see very little difference between my paper, and another kids 199/200 score "anti-walmart" paper. You are absolutely correct in the sense that i wanted to write about something that i knew alot about. I figured this would be easier than to be infiltrated with the feat of composing a decent essay on a topic that i know very little about. I hope to re-gain the points back (which will set me at a 85%) for the proof that my essay was in fact my own words.

Also, math comes easier to me then any sort of writing does. I assume that i like it, simply because i am good at it. there is much less of a learning curve when i must learn a concept within a math or science course... English class, not so much. I'm not saying that i'll give up because it is hard, no, its just that its harder to get motivated to fully grasp a topic.

Also, i personally have no idea how i would go about writing a persuasive paper on something that isn't just based on measurement. When you are dealing with "if:then" statements that only show probable consequences provided with certain measures that can be taken, how is one to be persuaded by anything but opinion and propaganda?
EF_Sean 6 / 3,491  
May 20, 2009   #25
The problem you get with the grading of English papers is that, once a teacher has become used to you submitting a certain level of work, there is a tendency to "peg" you at that level, and to want to keep you around that range. If your work improves suddenly, then the teacher might be reluctant to acknowledge it, or even conclude that the improvement is a result of cheating. This is sort of unfair, as the whole point of teaching someone is to get them to improve, but at the same time, the Internet has made plagiarism so easy, and cheating has become so common, that you can't really blame teachers for getting a bit cynical and jaded. Hopefully she will increase your mark once you show her your sources. And, on the bright side, you know that you are capable of writing 85% worthy papers in English now, even if you don't get credit for it immediately. If you keep submitting good work, though, eventually even your current teacher will be forced to start giving you the marks you deserve.
Notoman 20 / 419  
May 21, 2009   #26
Man, what a bummer that you now have to prove to her that your work is your own. It is worth the effort though. Not only for the improved grade, but to teach her not to judge you (and other students in the future) by her preconceived notions. I think that Sean is right on the "pegging" concept-especially in a subject like English where the grading can be so subjective.

I agree, math is much easier! There are only so many ways to solve an equation while there an an infinite number of ways to construct a sentence. Just because a teacher might have put the words together in a different way, doesn't make your constructions wrong (well, except when they are, but that is a different story).

It reminds me of when my younger brother, who can write circles around me, used the word "career" in a short story. He said something like, "I careered around the corner on my bicycle fearing the inevitable crash." His teacher crossed it out and wrote "careened." It just so happens that "career" (when used as a verb and not as a profession) DOES mean to go at a high rate of speed and out of control while "careen" (at least in the traditional sense) means to tip over-most often of a ship-to make repairs or to clean. The kid had the right word, but the teacher didn't know it. He's too shy to ever prove his point with a teacher and has since "dummy-downed" his writing. I wish the kid would learn the art of self-advocacy. Fortunately, errors of this nature haven't cost him grades in a course, but the lack of self-advocacy almost cost him a slot on a school trip to Spain (but that is another story).

Which brings me to another point . . . kudos to you for advocating for yourself. Be careful though. Teachers can be touchy and you don't want to put her on the defensive. Take the tack that you want to work with her to show her how the work is your own without putting her on the defensive. Instead of seeing her as the prosecutor while you are the defendant, try to think of her as an independent arbitrator that knows nothing of the situation and needs insight on your writing process and and you created this essay deserving of an 85% without plagiarizing. Ask the teacher if it would be beneficial if you brought a parent along. Not that you would want to bring a parent (unless you had to), but teachers tend to respect parents and if she sees that your mom or dad is on your side in this, she will realize that the writing is much more likely to be your own.

Good luck with it! I'd love to hear an update after you talk with her.
EF_Sean 6 / 3,491  
May 21, 2009   #27
To be fair to your brother's teacher, "careen" would have been the more standard construction. Careen's first definition: "(of a vehicle) to lean, sway, or tip to one side while in motion: The car careened around the corner. " The sentence in question is actually used by the dictionary to demonstrate the meaning of "careen". "Career" can be used as a verb, and is certainly acceptable, but the word does normally imply going at speed headlong or in a straight line. So, since the car is clearly not moving in a straight line, careen is a minor improvement.
Notoman 20 / 419  
May 21, 2009   #28
True . . . I do believe that "careen" is being used to mean "career" just like "decimate" is more commonly used now to mean "total destruction" than the original intention of "destroying one in every ten." Traditionally, that wasn't so. Webster's Third International Dictionary (Unabridged, of course), lists career as: 1. a course, 2. full speed 3. a course of progress in business or professional life and 3. a profession for which one has special training. The second entry has: 1. a short gallop or charge, 2. to go, drive, or run at top speed esp. in a headlong or reckless manner.

Careen is: 1. To cause a (boat) to lean over on its side making the other side accessible for repairs below the waterline 2. to cause to heel over 3. to sway from side to side (and then it uses the example of "the taxi careened west toward the main avenue).

Dictionary.com will give you different answers. Dictionary.com has the tendency to provide definitions that are in common usage which I think is very valuable, but I wouldn't want to discount Webster's either, *grin* There was a time when Dictionary.com gave "cardshark" instead of "cardsharp," but I just noticed that they fixed that.

I could be wrong about his sentence structure as well. He might have said something like, " I careered down the street on my bicycle fearing the inevitable crash," (instead of around a corner) in which case "career" would have made more sense in his word-nerd brain.

BUT . . . if my brother would have been willing to self-advocate, the teacher probably would have given him back the points. Sorry, I don't mean to be argumentative. I understand WHY the teacher did that-careen IS used much more often.
EF_Sean 6 / 3,491  
May 21, 2009   #29
Oh, I didn't realize he had lost marks. I thought you said it hadn't cost him grades. He shouldn't have lost marks, as career is certainly not wrong, given the context.
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
May 27, 2009   #30
Hello guys!

Just another update for you all.

I received my paper back again today, and i was reimbursed 32 points for the sources i provided! My grade went from a 140.6, to a 172.6 of 200! Haha, i think this is the first time i've ever been excited for a "B"!

I have to say that i can't thank you guys enough... I know that i would for sure still be struggleing with my essay. There are only two days of school left, and i am happy that i get a break from english for a summer, however, i will be writing a couple essays this summer for AP english lang/comp next year, so expect me back soon! ;P

Later (for now)

-Kyle Lanning
EF_Sean 6 / 3,491  
May 27, 2009   #31
Hey, 86% is a pretty good grade, and you were in shouting distance of breaking 90, which you probably would have done if your teacher hadn't thought you'd plagiarized to begin with. Good job all around, I'd say.
Notoman 20 / 419  
May 28, 2009   #32
Hey thanks for the update Kyle! I am glad that you were able to argue for the extra points She shouldn't have taken them away in the first place-if she suspected plagiarism, she could always use a plagiarism checker. They are many free versions available on the Internet.

86% is respectable.
OP kylelanning 1 / 12  
May 28, 2009   #33
Thanks for the support guys, i really appreciate it.


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