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Posts by Rajiv
Joined: May 2, 2007
Last Post: May 1, 2015
Threads: 55
Posts: 400  

From: India

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Rajiv   
Jun 13, 2009
Scholarship / I have studied intensively, especially maths and physics for the past twelve years - scholarship [38]

Since childhood my dream was to matriculate [from] a reputable university in Vietnam and at that time, an university which is in group A is very valuable . So [for the past twelve] years I have learned [studied] hard, especially maths and physics, in order to pursue my dream. But Once, when I was free and invited to a workshop of RMIT Vietnam, I thought [to myself] : " let come [me go] and find out how an international university works, I'll lose nothing to [by] doing this". Then I known [discovered] that I was right; it was the milestone that have changed decision and my whole [life. ]path!. A few months [Only 4 months] before my most important enchange exam which is considered a great deal of life; actually only 4 months, I decided to apply for scholarship of [at] RMIT Vietnam. I have had to complete both, work at school and studying English by myself at home at the same time as well . Getting 6.0 IELTs in 4 months practise [of] assiduous [practice], I [was] totally [very]pleased, although it does not satisfy your [the] base point. From my result, I strongly believe that I own [have the] ability of studying with a high level [of] determination and energy.
Rajiv   
Jun 12, 2009
Writing Feedback / "People of MTV generation have no patience. They want instant satisfaction." [84]

Is it possible for you to understand what I believe and not believe in it yourself .. one cannot even say that to someone much younger, for you would not be reckoning then with the strength and nature of the younger person's belief, which is more likely to be of a purer and disaffected kind.

Can it be possible you have never thought about this -- that two-thirds of the world, known also as the developing world, have people who do not see life as just to them at all in just these facts -- that they were born into countries which had lost out their riches to those who "colonized" them, which was a very accepted thing just a century back, or from countries which were actually left behind in terms of material progress.

You might think the philosophy of these people, specially those of the first kind, is only a mechanism for coping with their unequal destiny. It is very obvious you think this without a doubt. I will not be the one to try convincing you of anything, only give this some thought, that there are yet people in exactly the same circumstances as yourself, who for reasons of their own have felt as uncomfortable with this seeming unjustice of fate, and have looked very hard outside their normal circles.

More than me, it is someone like this who will convince you, that you are not indeed the "have-its". That those in the struggling world, for the larger part, are also nearer some more absolute truth, which you never turn to, believing that wealth is the end all of existence, and everyone saying otherwise seeks only to decieve those who have it.
Rajiv   
Jun 11, 2009
Writing Feedback / How can I play into the hands of my Maker - Sunday Morning [51]

I am in conflict where I have developed my own understanding and beliefs, and asked to accept the principle that society itself is the object of all improvement, served best through focusing on one's advancement as a component of that society.

This goes against the good of the poor; because it is allright then, to exploit them and their situation. Living conditions are like another apparel on our existence, and we tug and pull to make it better for us, and around us, and try to ignore the uncomfortable feeling identifying with those who suffer due to our actions.

Pursuit of knowledge is a path free from this, and somehow fulfilling, but does not seem to have the same content of purpose. What knowledge could compare to objectives people commonly work for? Only this, that even as we try to do the work we are doing, it is really happening not as a consequence of our wishes and desires, but by a design determined other than by these, and yet of ourselves.

This is a search which will take us closer to the meaning of existence, even more than knowing the physical nature of things.

What do I know about the part of me which determines the events of my life? A subtle feeling when we look deep, and the recognition is a small one. We say, I look deep within and I find... . Yet we acknowledge its significance, it seems true, and likely to pass.

Are these feelings deep within, the ones coming true for us? One could say they exist simultaneously, and not that we act to make them happen. We attempt to quicken the goal, but often when things do not happen as we are wanting, is it correct to enquire if they were instead responding to something deeper within ourselves? So that we are satisfied as things turned out.

Does this point to a path within for ourselves? Identifying our deepest feelings, associating them with happenings around us? The greatest changes may come to our lives then, not by intervening in the playing out of events, but these feelings within.

Chapter 2, Sutra 19 of the Yoga Philosophy of Patanjali explains the Samkhaya perspective of the order of natural things, and ourselves; a quite distinct way from the physical view we otherwise adopt of nature. We know the physical view falls short of explaining reality: our consciousness, our emotions and more physically even -- the edge of the universe? Or why, in quantum dimensions, do things lose their individualness?

It isn't a stretch to think of our senses as instruments with some limitations, and of ourselves, with finer abilities, the readers of these instruments.

Western philosophy says too, that apart from the limit due to minuteness, underlying what we percieve, has to be in essence something else. Samkhaya goes on to say that our perceptions of the natural elements - earth, sky, water, or from other senses, air and fire, are properties of even more real substances.

We feel a distinctiveness about ourselves, a completeness and independence from the rest of the world, and with it goes our ability to control our motion and direct our senses and attention. We see our bodies composed of the same materials as other things, posses life as trees do, but we also see this life-force and our senses apart from our bodies. And of these distinctive aspects of ourselves, we do not deny their existence though they are without any physical dimensions.

Space is what we make of what our eyes see. Objects appear to be at a distance, and have extent, so Space should be somehow beyond dimensions, since it manifests our singularity for us, and we acknowledge that we are not our bodies or senses alone.

Similarly, we come to a sense of hardness within ourselves. We could not sense hardness without touch, so we are a part the hardness we can feel. We take this further to ask .. what feels as hardness? It is external, and exists. We can even think of it without extent, and beyond visibility, caused by an independent entity in creation. This is an instance of Tanmatra in Samkhaya.

Other natural elements like water, air and fire are similarly Tanmatra manifestations; we struggle with their existence in our mind because existence is naturally associated with perception, and occuping space and extent. But even their every instance appears different, only due to the action of the space Tanmatra upon it.
Rajiv   
Jun 10, 2009
Writing Feedback / "People of MTV generation have no patience. They want instant satisfaction." [84]

Sean, to my understanding the difficulty here is something personal to you. You look out from a point where everything can only appear the way it now does. You think it is objective, but that idea too is fallacious. The truth lies somewhere which at present is a "blind-spot" for you. You are looking for its forms and other characteristics, which you recognize objects, and even concepts in the world by. You are unwilling to see that "reality" may be so arranged, where this continous sense you have, that this much you understand, and this much you do not, is in reality something greater than yourself, always there, and your sense of understanding a slow unveiling of it.

The objective understanding you seek, of the biosphere, ecosystems or even your own life is quite an illusion. Its reality is always present, energized, if that's the term you are comfortable with, from a realm whose dimensions we grasp only in the fringes. Meditation is the process, if you will, of gradually focusing towards that center, that reality. It is in this sense that we connect with events everywhere, looking "inside".
Rajiv   
Jun 9, 2009
Writing Feedback / How can I play into the hands of my Maker - Sunday Morning [51]

Simone, responding to your post before the last one. You do me great honor in sharing your beliefs with me. I will probably never know you personally any closer than this, but at the distance I am now, you appear to me representative of many many women here in the US and most of the Western world. I think many of them would find your description as portraying their own inner 'connection' with the universe, and your 'role' in it, as very accurate for themselves as well. This is very valuable to know about, for me somehow -- and I am quite overwhelmed how you have so graciously and spontaneously shared it.

For whatever interest my writings have for you, eastern thought, mysticism or simply curiosity even, I would so appreciate your reflections on them. ...
Rajiv   
Jun 8, 2009
Writing Feedback / How can I play into the hands of my Maker - Sunday Morning [51]

Thank you very much Simone, and Notoman. Hope you enjoy this piece too.. As before, the reader responded in italics and I've indented my answers.

What if we turn to ourself and say, I am the only one in this entire universe. That would be a hard picture to hold on to. Yet there seems to be some truth in it. Actually, maybe its not a hard picture to hold onto, that I am the only person in the universe. Because what if all the people around me aren't people but merely puppets? I mean as far as I know, since I never feel what they feel or taste what they put into their own mouths, I could be the only human being. What I mean to say is that since I've never been inside another persons body, I've never seen things from their point of view or lived their life, honestly I could accept the fact that I'm the only actual person who really does feel things and taste things and say things that I want to say and everyone else is just trained to say things, like a puppet. I don't know, maybe I'm going too far on this theory, but I'm just trying to explain my point.

- I like what you are saying that there is some kind of a barrier in knowing yourself, and who the other person really is. Have you gone so far as to think - everyone being as they are - is connected to your larger life, not just the one you know about and seems to you, you live. Maybe you do agree to that.

The question is, what of the world? Lets deal with first the inanimate things around us. What is their nature other than how we know them?

Things are distributed by distance from where I am. When a thing is farther, that's the same as saying it seperated by a distance, though distance itself has no substance, but if I could say the more of distance is pored in between, the smaller it makes the object appear, could I hold on to the idea that in someway the thing never got further or closer. Speed is a property of distance, like distance is getting removed or added again. And distance depends on our visual perception, not of itself directly, but like sound depends on silence. It is a background. This actually-in a form-is science, right? Speed causing distance to be removed or added, objects appearing smaller when more of the distance is pored in between. I think you're leading up to a point which I haven't read yet so I can't really comment on anything yet, or give my viewpoint since everything in this paragraph is true, scientifically and theoretically.

- no this isnt the science you will be taught in school, but I thought you already had studied distance, speed, time - Newton's laws etc..

the idea I am reaching for here is, when we say a thing is moving away, could we think of it as distance like some substance being pored in between. Like things can appear sometimes smaller in a glassful of liquid, distance has the same property of making things appear small. And instead of a thing moving quickly away, something in between us and it, could be changing.

we can tell sounds because of the silence in between. Wouldn't the entire world just become one solid mass if things were'nt seperated by, distance. The effect of this mingling up has been to make us think of ourself as similarly small, and as one of the things in the world.

Meaning of sounds occur in our minds and sometimes they don't, depending on our knowledge of that sound. Which is the association of sound to its meaning. Meaning empowers us. We accept the concept of meaning because it makes it easier to deal with similarity. So its like a similar thing multiplied on different occasions, or just presented to us so many times. I understand this paragraph up til here. So the more times we hear the repetition of the sound (the more it is presented to us), the more we accept it has a meaning. We sort of get a handle to most of its substance, and leave some specifics of that instance. We know almost certainly it cannot be the same thing.How would we know it is not the same thing? It is, if it is repeated again and again. Wait...I think I understand. Because we see it as similar since it is the same sound, we see it as unsimilar because of the different times it was said. So its separated through the specifics of that instance, as in different points in time the sound was used, not through the actual sound itself since that is the same.

For example, the tram I catch in the mornings. It is similar in many ways , but I cannot do it with my eyes closed. I think I get it now. You couldn't do it with your eyes closed because though yes, it is similar because you catch the tram everyday, maybe even at the exact same time everyday and the exact same tram, but you can't do it with your eyes closed because of other factors that make each time you do it different. So even if something is the same, there is also a way it's different. In this case, the traffic could be different. If you did it with your eyes closed you would bump into people, or a car might crash into you because of the differences around you, different people going different places every day. Every day is different, even if you yourself do the same thing everyday.

but what is the point about the similarity and meaning of things. Can we say similarity and unsimilarity is when it is about sameness in appearance, something we see or hear or even touch, taste or smell. And meaning is somewhere deeper, is real, very real, and the appearance and its meaning make up the actual thing we experience.

so getting on the tram automatically is no big deal, like a robot, and actually when the tram changes tracks down the line that's whats happening. The engineers have seen enough similarity that they can automate the whole process. I am only drawing attention to this dual nature of everything. The meaning part and the specific part. And though the specific part has differences the meaning part seems to exist elsewhere - and we can say it is the same, for all the times we see it differently.

Isnt this like ever increasing knowledge. Like swallowing up the diversity in the world around, into somewhere inside of us, and we just keep eating and eating the world. So is that the end of it, when its all eaten up. Can there be a state when there is nothing more to know. Definitely not. I don't understand how you came to that point.

why not? when everything becomes integrated together. Like everything fits as one whole piece. And there are no specific pieces.

this is like sometimes, specially 'wise old people', sit and say, oh that's what happened, I knew it would turn out so! Well they're saying something like, been there, done that - even if they're just thinking so about their experiences.

But, there could be those who have actually been through such intense experiences in life, that they really can relate with and understand the things happening ordinarily to others. And, I think we can extend this idea to think about some persons just actually knowing it all.

Perception may not be between a perciever and another object. That differentiation depends upon our seeing ourselves within, and behind our eyes, or to some central point within our heads where the sounds reach. That central point rests on visual perception again. Maybe, a person without sight has no need for a central point for sounds to come to. Loudness, like size of objects though giving an idea of distance feels like seeing with one eye. We cannot be exact about the distance its coming from.

Interestingly when there is no distance, there is contact, another sense perception coming into play, which by its absence enforces the distance idea.

Are we talking then about a immanantly existing something, conjured up for our minds, and how we deal with it is because of these sense interactions. When you write these essays what brings you to discuss the different topics? How did you come to write about this topic?
Rajiv   
Jun 7, 2009
Writing Feedback / How can I play into the hands of my Maker - Sunday Morning [51]

Would it surprise you if I said, after all, I am not very different from you in my beliefs either. The difference seems to me, that I am wondering about these things I ask here, wondering how to make sense of them otherwise .. actually even wondering how to make sense of them, even believing in a maker!

You don't ask these questions anymore? Or you just wouldn't ask them here in this fashion ? Or there are some answers you know to them? In any case, thank you for your gentle response. The italics are a young reader's responses when I sent her this writing.
Rajiv   
Jun 7, 2009
Writing Feedback / How can I play into the hands of my Maker - Sunday Morning [51]

How can I play into the hands of my Maker, when all of a sudden I have come to be, it seems.

My mind is focused on something and I can even see I have been moving towards it. It brings its path, like stepping stones falling into place one by one, willed by my own mind, perhaps.

As things happen, actually happen, small events like going out, carry a message which was meant for me, so I must look and listen very carefully. Larger things which make my life too, now seem to be to take me on my way. Even little things which may not seem so important are leading to the`path which takes us to God.

The purpose which I seek is already in my life, a path upon which I am going. Experiences unfold, guided by the Maker of this world and me. Therefore, what we do with our life plays an important role in where we end up. Though our Maker decides and unfolds a lot for us, as human beings, what we do affects us later on.

* * * * *
Do we accept there is beyond us something making things happen, different from our intent, where we thought we acted alone. There are times when one feels like what we do is only our decision, but there are those who are usually aware that there is another force, our Maker, who is guiding us.

How can we not. Every time we want to do things on our own, we need to check with reality, or else our actions do not result in anything meaningful at all. Meaningful is when after whatever we have done we look at it again and it stands together as a complete piece. So often it is different from what we intend it to be, sometimes a little better, sometimes a little less whole and we may try to alter it, bring it closer to our conception, but we also step back after each stroke and look at it and ask what it is saying about itself, it's wholeness and so often we leave it at that. Who made it then, did we? Oh yes, we made it happen.Ofcourse what we do is a piece of a larger picture, but sometimes thats not so. Every event is linked to another, but sometimes the result of what one does does not show up till much later.

Our knowledge of the world is its present reality. Like a sculptor, we chip away at its imperfections, but in our minds. Sometimes the imperfections fall away on their own, like a ill-fitting part and in that way the real picture takes shape which we live with, and it doesn't matter our eyes are open or closed in someway we remain constantly connected.

We do that with our thoughts all the time. Step back and examine them for some value and content, some intrinsic soundness.

Two things seem very worthwhile to consider, one is the nature of awareness, is it outside ourselves and we are witnessing the entire process and what we call perception is at the lowest level. The other is control. To be able to make things happen as we please, not to please ourselves but something whithin our own ability to make happen.

If awareness really happens outside us, what is our nature then. If thoughts are a continuation of the upward becoming subtle of whatever begins as perception, there is no outside and no inside. It leaves us yet with some ability we have to think in one way or another, a capricious identity which may turn whichever way. But deep within, inside this freewheeling we see our own inquiring mind, observing, looking for chinks in this play of ourselves and the world. If in that intelligence too we are not the intelligence, it leaves yet the bewildered personae, who seeks release.

This last paragraph confuses me a lot, i do not understand how it relates to the rest of the essay. There is no outside or inside, does that mean our thoughts are linked to what plays out in the rest of the world? I understand that concept, however I am not sure if that is what you are trying to say. What is the identity?

Whatever state we may be in, we are in some way connected to our outside world. We struggle to make our world, our thoughts, who we are, more perfect and maybe, more understandable. But often in this struggle we find ourself needing release from this cycle and connection, and that is what makes us want to be one with our Maker.

Rajiv   
Jun 6, 2009
Writing Feedback / "People of MTV generation have no patience. They want instant satisfaction." [84]

I also want to tell you of something which has been coming to my mind as I have read your posts. You've been talking of a sudden enlightenment which may happen with persons engaged in this quest. I get the feeling that you think of this as some phenomenon like in a physics experiment, as when maybe, in some controlled chain reaction, a threshold is acquired and the entire phenomena changes. This idea may be getting enforced by thinking of meditation as a process which somehow refines our mind in gradual stages, and suddenly crosses some threshold value transforming it into super-consciousness.

I do not wish to say my meditation experience has been more meaningful than yours, nor that I have any greater knowledge in spiritual practices than you do. As a matter of fact, I have often felt happy reading things as you describe them, knowing I would have struggled in vain to put them across.

There is something though I wish to share with you, seeing you as an ernest seeker. It is a small thing in itself, but so much at the base of everything else, that thinking about things in a particular way might put you on quite a different course than if you were to look at them in another.

Is this not somewhat of a surprising fact to consider, that at any time, if we look at our circumstances they appear like some balanced system, the kind we are used to seeing on a larger scale; like the eco-systems say, in a neighboring marshland. Were something untoward to happen within its universe, the entire system moves into action, preserving as much of its original nature while adjusting itself and coping with this new presence.

The point being, that there is always an expanded boundary of this system such that this intrusive event becomes a predictable one. Then we can go a further step and think about exercising some control on this event, such as hastening or delaying it; assuming we have enough knowledge of the larger system.

I am suggesting that, while meditating, we think of the world around us in this manner; as ever increasing subsystems, encompassing those within. We can measure our progress then as our meditation develops, in an increasing knowledge of these expanding circles of subsystems around us.

I hope this conveys something worthwhile to you. I wouldn't be surprised though, if I didn't do too well..
Rajiv   
Jun 5, 2009
Writing Feedback / "People of MTV generation have no patience. They want instant satisfaction." [84]

Other than Silicon, the naturally occuring semiconductor, its neighbors in the periodic table, Arsenic and Germanium can be doctored to behave as semiconductors, by a process of doping -- adding an extra electron or a hole by ion-implantation or chemical means. Selectively doping a semiconductor enables formation of millions of switches on it, which are each controlled by electric currents. So we get a sort of a hardware device which seems to understand us, as it is programmed to do, when we 'talk' to it by sending inputs as current impulses.

In this entire process how do you envision enhancing our minds by transforming them into semiconductors? Hard-wiring is the limit of what can be done with semiconductors -- and that is a very inferior level of executing instructions, like the kind you would find opening garage doors or in vending machines?

Wasn't this one of the fallacies the other thread brought up, on respecting authority for its own sake.
Rajiv   
Jun 5, 2009
Research Papers / Research paper on Mormons! [20]

It should be a good thing if a religion has the versatality to even embrace the circumstances of prison inmates and give them some thing to make meaning with, of their lives. Why the concern, do you happen to know?
Rajiv   
Jun 5, 2009
Writing Feedback / "People of MTV generation have no patience. They want instant satisfaction." [84]

Kevin -- you are vacillating in the position you want to commit to!

This idea about -- what we spend more of our time doing -- is actually quite the correct one to consider in answering what our own reality is. How unlikely it is for you and I, that we will decide upon and then actually spend hours, days, months and years pursuing a reality beyond the common one; the one you refer to as enlightenment. It is easy for us to not deliberately think of those who experienced it, as having started from where you and I now are. Why not accept the weakness in our own resolve?

Is this any different from the student who on starting his college, makes a resolve to become an engineer, for instance? We know he succeeds not because of the instruction he gets there, but more, because almost certainly, of the hours foregoing many "fun" things his buddies were into, and working instead at some concept or thorny problem. Which then became the base for the next concept, and so on, as his mind developed toughness and capability as he was ready to graduate.

I think those who do not get into a course of study they wish for, probably think of it all as pretty useless -- similar to us, who know we cannot do what it might take, in this other more abstract realm.
Rajiv   
Jun 5, 2009
Research Papers / Research paper on Mormons! [20]

Thank you !

I didn't mean my comments as racist in any way.

I'd hate to think that about you.
Rajiv   
Jun 5, 2009
Research Papers / Research paper on Mormons! [20]

Simone, Notoman is saying that with reference to Muslim conversions, not Mormonic. The way he simply puts it there, sounds like his own opinion to me.
Rajiv   
Jun 5, 2009
Research Papers / Research paper on Mormons! [20]

conversions are especially high among African-American prison populations

-- sounds biased to me.
Rajiv   
May 31, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

Could you explain Maya in more detail?

Maya is the beguiler -- let me give her this gender as she often is represented in Indian philosophy, where she is also known as Prakriti, translated as nature in English. Her counterpart is Purusha, a male, and represents consciousness alone.

As it often happens in life, when a male and female meet, come closer, then decide on a life together, the female is very concerned with the life her man has lived until then; and also all his other tendencies. Now if they have come together with a sincere commitment to go through thick and thin, it is not enough for the female to only know what her man is, or weaknesses he has acted by, in the past. For them to live in harmony and for her to continously care for him and love him increasingly by the passing days, she has to tease out those tendencies in him which will make him act in ways detrimental to their conjugal life. In this sense, she becomes of a nature which is the complement of his.

The more sincere are her efforts and keener her own spirit to root out from their lives, his many wilder-ness-es, the more she knows will their life pass in stability and understanding together. So she plays out many roles; and more so in the earliest years of their lives together.

And he gives in to those impulses in himself and plays the part he is unable to keep himself from doing; and she, like some lioness crouched till then on the side, punishes him. Always letting him see clearly that he stands guilty by his own conscience, the laws he asked her to trust him by; so that now, she is really carrying out the purging he has not the discipline to do upon himself. The man may wish to revolt, give up their world together, and think of finding a life in the wilderness without her companionship and harmony; and sometimes he even may, but then she would have erred, and both are sorry with the outcome.
Rajiv   
May 30, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

Thanks a lot - I take it that you three did get the meaning as I intended to convey in the metaphors. I appreciate your comments nonetheless, and will be really happy to hear more of your thinking on all this written above.
Rajiv   
May 29, 2009
Writing Feedback / "People of MTV generation have no patience. They want instant satisfaction." [84]

That is quite an interesting statement.

Indian philosophy offers an explanation here. That unlikely as it appears, deliberate deception is precisely the intention. And the deciever is Maya. It has three qualities and everything -- everything other than consciousness is Maya, and it's three qualities.

The moot point being that Maya, cannot be understood, since our minds too are only it's components. Depending on what we may be talking about, the definitions of these qualities come across a shade different. The actuality of things, is the Satva quality. Our extrapolations, is the Rajas quality of our minds. The last, negative and dark, is Tamas.

It is the first, the actuality of things which we want to be most concerned with. We seek the light and Satva, also interpreted as truth, is the way. Though it isn't itself consciousness -- that being us.

I know all this adds up only to definitions and in no way explains anything; but one way I think about this is that, quite independently you've come to a definition which is a fundamental concept in another philosophy. It's like coming up to a door and not going in.
Rajiv   
May 26, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

What I believe in, as I mentioned earlier, is in Sanskrit; though parts of it may appear similar to "determinism".

I really wish you to relate with the rest as well. Aside from the slightest of jesting, all light heartedly intentioned in the two posts above, I was quite sincerely answering your question on the test of "true knowledge" - whether it stands up to empirical test or is simply faith. I wondered if all my metaphors conveyed their sense. The primary question in my mind being, whether you or anyone seeking such answers recognizes where he must begin. I think people are likely to brush aside that " space like when you are alone" as a temporary lapse in their mind. More so because it is accompanied by a sense almost like fear. But this moment, according to where I am coming from, is more real than our perceptions, and even our thoughts. And even further, this is where we cognize, and wherein lies the "reality" of things we "see" and "understand".

My sense is, you usually go through these posts too quickly to respond at the level I am talking with you.

If you are confident you do know what I mean, then surely that seemingly dark space is where we are all lost. Finding our way out should be, and actually is, our only desire.
Rajiv   
May 24, 2009
Writing Feedback / History, Royal Engineer essay. [6]

Bravo !! This was one of the most enjoyable piece of writing I have ever come across !!!
Rajiv   
May 24, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

Here's another picture. I hope it brings some clarity to the ideas I am attempting to convey.

Imagine a bunch of marbles bouncing energetically on some surface. They don't all have the same path as they bounce, and one can see after watching them a while that they have different energies, and they bound in different directions, some even showing unique traits of their own. All is of course within the bounds of what marbles can do.

Let's further imagine each has inscribed some of our names on it. Now to help me explain the concept I wish to put across, let me say, for this example, that the one with the most energy has your name, 'Sean' on it. So, as observers we all begin to notice that our marble 'Sean' is almost characteristically different. It bounces the highest, with seeming ease, it knocks other marbles off from their patterns, which is all fine because that is the nature of this marble game.

Now imagine we can ourselves 'hear' what each of these marbles is saying to itself. We as observers have the advantage of knowing that every action of this whole collection depends on the force they have picked up until this time. That is, none of their actions is truly random. And this we say with the certainity of our own knowledge of the physics of such phenomenon.

Moving to the next step, we start reading the minds of these marbles, which being more limited than ours, are more about their immediate experience. They have little knowledge of how they acquired the force from previous encounters. Follow along with me now, and tell me if what I read sounds plausible to you as well. Every jump Sean makes, he tallies in his mind. Every encounter he sees coming up, his face lights up and he puts himself entirely into delivering the soundest of blows. He is our favourite marble here, the most exciting one to watch and we applaud the skill he uses and his many capabilities, as a marble, to create so much action.

What although we begin in time to notice, since we can read his mind, that though entirely predictable to us, every time he launches himself, he thinks himself as drawing his energy and his direction from somewhere deep within. He seems as though to have little or no knowledge of the many energies he picked up during his lifetime; at various times, for being at a particular place, at a particular time. He does not see how the trajectory he finds himself on, which seems so appropriately to counter another marble's play, lies in the hands of the one whose hands he was flung from. This time the player chose him, at another, the player will pick another - for just these moves.
Rajiv   
May 20, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

OK Sean. On "true knowledge".

Here's the picture coming to my mind. A forest, you are lost in it, dark, dense and maybe even a little interesting; that is, you've started to become interested in the flora and the foilage around you; but are at the same time moving on, in some direction, and sometimes you ask yourself...where are you going?

There aren't other people sharing this space with you, as this is like the space we find ourselves in when we are alone.

You meet someone now, who points to something, maybe on the trees; some kind of distinctive markings, and tells you ".. in case you're wondering if these trees ever end, then follow those markings. Go in the direction where they appear to increase, where you find more and more trees that have them."

You are in a quandry now, because you had started to develop a sense of your own direction. You're not very sure if it is a way out, but this sense has somehow come to you from these things you've been observing, things which started to interest you. And that is more or less, how you've been guiding your steps. You are asked now to disregard these things which intrigue you, and follow those other markings instead to come out of the forest.

Naturally, you want to know the reason why take someone's word for it that, 'just' these markings lead the way out.

If you like this metaphor, I'll carry on. I want to be sure there isn't anything else of real significance to you - that I'm missing.
Rajiv   
May 18, 2009
Writing Feedback / "People of MTV generation have no patience. They want instant satisfaction." [84]

But I wonder if you notice, that even in what you have quoted, or rather in your explanation of it, you are falling short of admitting to an action happening simply because you have that thought in your mind. As though an intelligence, over yours, recognizes it and then acts it on your behalf.

And this is again, simply because of a certain mental attitude you have when you are patient, a little humble, a little accepting that other things of which you may not be aware of, in the larger play of events within which yours is a part, need to be carried through. This is more like when a teacher might notice the student who sits and waits patiently to have his question answered.

The opposite of the "squeaky wheel".
Rajiv   
May 17, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

Yes, that maybe so. I meant it as power over others, a societal point of view. Did you perhaps mean it as strength, as in an enhanced ability?

If I have your definition correct, then according to me, the only source of that power is a common one which we are all able to tap into on occasions. We then feel it as a surge in ourselves, in our self confidence, and generally as a feeling of getting in tune with things which matter to us at that time.

Power over others is of a different nature altogether. It is something to one individual's or a group's benefit, but at cost to others, and ofcourse I see that as negative.

Will to power - I have only superficial knowledge of Nietzche's writing. He obviously points to something positive in this. I'll be grateful to understand that from you.
Rajiv   
May 16, 2009
Writing Feedback / "People of MTV generation have no patience. They want instant satisfaction." [84]

Here is some more on "patience"; first from an evolutionist's point of view -

People were advised to cultivate patience, so that things that were in process, would complete, having gone through the stages, or steps they were designed to or known to have. Point to understand being, that were you already aware of the time each stage of the process would take, you wouldn't need "patience". You need patience only when you do not know what's going on, and must keep yourself from becoming agitated; as when, your child or your sibling isn't back from somewhere and it's past the time that they were expected to be. Patience is a schooling of the mind.

Interestingly, the non-evolutionary idea of patience goes further. It says, that it is due to the effort the individual makes, and effort here is not the usual kind of exerting ourselves, but often in some other fashion, maybe holding thoughts of anxiety at bay by focusing on something at a deeper level, that we cause the "forces in nature" to set things to happen as per our will. So patience is a force of its own kind.
Rajiv   
May 16, 2009
Writing Feedback / "People of MTV generation have no patience. They want instant satisfaction." [84]

Philosophically, it is the argument whether "patience" as a virtue is worth cultivating anymore; when technology has "evolved" the world to the point that we can demand and expect instant gratification in everything, and every time. The latter argument implying that fundamentals such as "patience" are from an earlier schools of thought, and need not apply in the newer(evolutionary) understanding of the world.
Rajiv   
May 15, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

I liked how you brought up the 'will to give' on the other thread. It's counterpart 'will to power' has a certain facination to me, the kind one has for something deadly or dangerous. I see it as the belief driving many people here in US to keep the world in status-quo, as we all inherited it, in its differences. The colonizing countries having looted the 'weaker' ones, left them bereft not only of their material wealth but weakened in their psyches as well through oppresive practices.

How difficult the present economic climate is to set up an industry here in US. Imagine the situation worsening in this same way for another ten or twenty years. You can be sure, much of what is 'civilized' will be ripped away.
Rajiv   
May 15, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

Thank you Kevin, your comments are deeply appreciated. I wondered though, if you could tell that this experience followed immediately after the last , the spiritual one. It was all of this happening in the background which was driving me to seek 'answers' to my predicament, that I did not feel I had the strength to face.
Rajiv   
May 13, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

I apologize for allowing my baby_mind to take over earlier. Here is the other response, maybe the kind I should have given in the first place.

I was twenty-two. For many years I had been resisting the direction I was finally taking. Life should be fun, and challenging as well, but never so bleak that you lose control altogether, have no choice but to fall into despair. That was the reason I had resisted this direction.

I am not going to say what made me change. Or why I now felt ready to face my fate. But I had taken the steps which brought me to the door where my future would unravel.

I arrived, the month and year I can still remember, on april of '78 at my parent's home, in a state of mind that may have surprised them too, though they wouldn't show it. They knew better than I did that there was a certain inexhorableness in the march of these events, and I was where I had to be.

Five years earlier, my dad had taken an early retirement from his previous employment, and put his money in starting a small engineering workshop in an industrial town close to Delhi. He was a patient of asthma and sometimes his asthma attacks were so severe that he would sit up in bed, shoulders humped, and breathe with a painful and laboured sound, sometimes for hours. I had come to dread that sound, for it was in the night that he'd have these attacks. There is a lot of emotion tied with that, but I will be able to gradually bring them up I hope.

It was easy enough to set up the workshop, buying and erecting a couple of power-presses, a few lathes, some necessary instruments. Then he hired a local as his foreman and some three or four workers. The idea was to take orders from a motorcycle manufacturer, which too had recently come up in this town. This motorcycle factory outsourced almost ninety percent of their work to small manufacturing units like our own workshop. For every component there were at least three manufacturers and the factory could drive their prices and control the supplies as per their requirements. The inspector of the incoming supplies could turn the stringency of his checking up by just a notch, and the lot would be returned.

All this was specially true for the lowest rung of the suppliers, those who had joined this business recently. They often found themselves scrabbling just to pay their workers, becoming obligated to their own suppliers as well, as they would have bought materials on credit from them. It was for these reasons that a workshop owner's life became very stressful.

His not being an engineering oriented person, made my dad vulnerable to those around him who were. After a few foremen were ejected, the one who settled in had sense and tact to wield his skill knowledgebly enough, that he was never thought so much in the wrong to be fired, and yet appeared by virtue of a little technical knowledge he possesed of some value. He hid his own personal designs behind this veneer, something which surfaced much later. Such a person is even more deadly to have close to you and begin to rely upon, as he slowly sucks your confidence in doing even the things that you could do well. But then, this is what reality is !

The first six months were unreal in more ways than one. That I was doing this, was itself a surprise of a sort to me every time I thought about it. I had put my hand on the till where catastrophe was a certainity, and with it I felt, much of what made up my life until then. I imagined myself being gradually sucked into this maw of machines and metal, workshops and traders, all clamoring for money we did not have. The people at the manufacturer's started to appear almost like deities with the power they wielded over us, to delay our payments, or reject our supplies, or to even give us enough orders that we have enough to work with, and make some money from manufacturing to carry on.

I started literally at the bottom. I was not even the person who operated the machines directly, instead, I was the person turning the wheel of the hand press while the operator fed the metal blanks and removed them after each stroke. Ofcourse the workers were initially a little stirred by this, expecting that I would only last a few hours then move to the office and sit at the table, with papers or something of the sort.

But I had a sense of abandon, I wished something big to happen, or nothing. Because no small event or change was going to turn this ship around, as it sometimes appeared to be. And not knowing what I could do specifically, I just put my head down, caught up in that small process of my immediate operation, and let myself go into it.

This isn't much of a life, and there wasn't much to speak about after sitting at the press for eight hours. I'd walk home as it was only a few miles, and I felt the life that I had known until then slowly recede and dissolve into some oblivion. Only one thing I can remember feeling sure about, and that was that somehow, this is all I can do, and so this is all I am doing.

Six months later my dad left the management of the buisness altogether. I had somewhat of a footing, and the workers regarded me as the one incharge. And so did those outside the buisness, the ones who had payments to collect from us, and those who needed a point man to put pressure on to deliver, threatening to cancel the existing orders.

With someone who has experienced something similar, this might resonate well. It is a little like drowning and fighting for your life. Life preservation in these circumstances is an instinctive act, the actions of flailing your limbs to free yourself and give some upward buoyancy come naturally.

But imagine yourself in that situation and not even knowing which direction to pull towards. At such a time there is a notion which may arise within you. I remember it seeming like a choice almost, and as if it was of no great significance. You felt you had the choice of not surrendering despite the overwhelming odds. You clasped on to this idea, recognizing some other features of it as well, just as you might for a species of a plant growing in the wild.

Without such a support from within, it would have been impossible to keep my sanity. In that quiet hour as I walked home after work, I saw the various events arranging themselves, projecting for me what I should do next. And that is how it seemed to carry on for a long time, for nearly two years, as I struggled to break out of the vicious circle. To find something complex that we could manufacture, and with a margin of profit sufficient to turn around our downwards trend.

When you have a rope to grasp, which to begin with, only seemed like a rope, but turns into a lifeline for you. Your uncertainity melts away, and your focus only strengthens its existence. What an exhilarating feeling that is! As I happened that day to walk across the table of a design officer who I only somewhat knew, something on his table caught my eyes, and I asked him what it was. They were looking for suppliers to make this component for them, but it might perhaps be a little beyond our capability. It was a significant moment as he looked at me, seeing the eagerness, the mixture of intensity and despair, whatever it was, he was a kindly man and said to me, "Sure. Go ahead, give it a try."
Rajiv   
May 11, 2009
Writing Feedback / Machine Learning versus Learning by Humans [51]

Well seeing how you breeze through whatever you may come upon here, you appear not unlike one of the machines you rever. You come here, having programmed yourself to give the poor sops who put their gibberish here, just so much of yourself - convinced that they are still better off for whatever you throw their way.

You do not expect to learn anything your self here at all. That learning, you'd rather memorize and take without even a pinch of salt from the journals you browse, just to keep up this charade, for yourself and the others you believe.

Do you then go to your club in some old english style part of your town, where you and your cronies puff your cigars while you admire each others polished shoes and plaid socks, and drink bloody marys? You raise your self worth by pretending the world is still white and black, and will always be that way. And then you tell your buddies how brilliantly you wrote on this forum of heathens, or is it something else you call them, and then you stagger out late in the night pretending the bobbies think you guys as the 'lads' and 'good ol sports'?

Pathetic!

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